Early War Fed Accoutrements
Fed Issue Shirt
Proper Fed Issue Canteen
Hardee Hat
Decent Fed Forage Cap
Shelter Half
And for your birthday next year...swap the Indian for something decent....
Nobby
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madasabagofcats |
Christmas Pressie suggestions... |
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Get the Missus or the folks or the bin lids or whoever to get you:
Early War Fed Accoutrements Fed Issue Shirt Proper Fed Issue Canteen Hardee Hat Decent Fed Forage Cap Shelter Half And for your birthday next year...swap the Indian for something decent.... Nobby |
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North Carolina |
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Chris,
Assuming that fellows might be able to persuade their loved ones to contribute to the Christmas goodwill as you have suggested, I think it proper to suggest that, before a mad purchasing spree is undertaken, the lucky ones should consider where such gifts should be obtained. As is well known, there is a huge variety in the quality/accuracy of kit available on the market and it would be a great pity if, in innocence, the wrong stuff was purchased. My simple message is that, if in doubt as to the best vendors, for goodness sake ask before you buy. This is absolutely critical if we are to help people upgrade their impressions and prevent them from wasting money. A sufficient body of experience and knowledge exists amongst us which is there for the asking. The "Approved Vendors" section of the AC Forum is the best place to start and if I can help with any specific recommendations please contact me and I'd be glad to help Have a merry and peaceful Christmas one and all. Patrick |
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fedhead |
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Early War Fed Accoutrement's, nobby what do you mean
the 1839 round ball box 0.69 and the 1857 0.58 box ? Are you planing a 61 to mid 62 event? Martyn Goddard
Volunteer company Lazy Jacks mess Mess #4 It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. Abraham lincoln |
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Private Shreddies |
Re: Christmas Pressie suggestions... | ||
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Guys,
Always endeavouring to improve my impressions and equipment I decided, back in 2005, to upgrade my leather accoutrements. I was keen to do this as my budget option I had bought was no longer acceptable to me or to the standards that I aspired to. But what to buy and from whom put me into a bit of a quandary. Ever mindful of the requirements of multi-impression and period I followed Andrew Imlachs article which had just been published on this very subject In the AES journal which offered sound advice and stood me in good stead on the way forward. For an early war cartridge box which will serve for either Federal or Confederate impression may I suggest the following:- Pattern 1857 .69 Calibre Rifled Musket Cartridge Box. These were early war Federal contract boxes generally found without makers marks and un-riveted belt loops. Also some boxes were made with belt loops spaced wider apart as the New York Arsenal pattern. Allegheny Arsenal set the pattern with the loops central under the shoulder straps. I decided to keep the box au natural and not mount the brass US oval box plate on the outer flap. In conjunction with this box I also purchased the Pattern 1850 Cap Pouch Standard. This was the standard US style production cap pouch made from early 1850 through the earl part of the Civil War. This pouch has no rivets in the waist belt loops. Both the Cartridge Box and Percussion Cap Pouch I purchased from Rob Serio, at Missouri Boot and Shoe. For a Federal Eastern Impression post January 1862 I opted for the following:- Pattern 1861 .69 Calibre Rifled Musket Cartridge Box This was the wartime contract box with riveted waist belt loops. Federal contractors were required to mark their products. Production began in July 1862. However, some of 57 Pattern items made after Nov. 1861 reflect the rivets in the waist belt loops. So there was something of a transitional period. The .69 Calibre Smoothbore boxes were out of production in Feb. 1862. Following that date, when Smoothbore arms were issued the .69 Rifled Musket Box was issued. When necessary, Cartridge Boxes were issued on the basis of if the ammunition fits. Again I purchased this item from Missouri Boot and Shoe and asked for it to be stamped with a C.S. Storms / New York contractors mark. For an alternate Eastern theatre contractor you could choose J.B. Thaxtor / Portland Maine or for Western theatre you could have J.B. Sickles / St Louis whom supplied over 10,000 sets of Infantry accoutrements during the course of the war. In conjunction with this box I also purchased the Pattern 1861 Cap Pouch. This was the 1861 contract standard US style Cap Pouch made with with rivets in waist belt loops. Again from Rob Serio. I chose Missouri Boot and Shoe because they offer high quality goods at very reasonable prices, cartridge boxes on average are $105.00 and cap pouches at $40.00. The latter are lined correctly with 100% lambs wool and come with cone pick loops. Another excellent supplier for these items would be C.D. Jarnagin who sell the 1861 box for $152.00 more expensive but completely hand sewn with linen thread and again high quality. I was also able at a later date to purchase a Cartridge Box sling from Joe Hoffman at the Jersey Skillet Licker which was also stamped C.S. Storms c/w with the round Eagle Breastplate already mounted with manufacturer W.H. Smith (no, really) Brooklyn backmarks. Unfortunately this item, like most of the items stocked ( or more to the point out of stock) doesnt seem to be available any more. Im afraid that this splendid source of quality uniforms, accoutrements and sundries is not what it once was and seems to offer less and less items every time I tune into their website. The information that I have reproduced for your information here was taken from the Missouri Boot and Shoe online catalogue and I hope that these recommendations are helpful to you. All the best Grits |
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fedhead |
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I am interested to know, why did you go for 0.69 cal when you have a 0.58 cal musket.
Also the 1857 0.58 cal box would have been replaced in the federal army by late 62 ( there could have been small numbers issued after this date but in small numbers for a short time until the 61 fed through to the depots.) please read more in Civil War Cartridge Boxes of the Union Infantryman, by Paul D. Johnson, also please read the CRRC vol2. I would also recommend giving jarnagin a miss i had a cap pouch from them that was incorrectly stamped Richmond depot., there are some excellent makers around now, nick duval for one. Martyn Goddard
Volunteer company Lazy Jacks mess Mess #4 It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. Abraham lincoln |
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Private Shreddies |
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Martyn,
Good point about my owning a 0.58 calibre weapon and opting for a .69 calibre box. As i said i used Andrew Imlach's article as a basis for my selection. One would rightly assume that you would opt for a box that matches the calibre of the weapon that you are equipped with. But than it is clear that most units that we will represent statred with .69 calibre weapons. Most likely that weapon would've been the .69 calibre 1842 musket or even an earlier .69 weapon. Hence a .69 calibre box.Also it appears that even in the US army boxes were issued provided the ammunition would fit. So the early .69 box will take .58 cartridges and not vice versa. I also was mindful of K.C. MacDonalds uniform and Accoutrement guidelines that he published for Army of Tenessee Western theatre impressions. Again the .69 1857 box together with the 1850 cap pouch were recommended. As i said before i was trying to purchase equipment that would cover multi-impressionism. regards Grits |
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fedhead |
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Yes i am well aware of the use of 0.69 cal cartridge boxes but i would expect for federal use post mid 62 a 61 box that matches the caliber of weapon used and a small number of the 57 type in 0.58 cal or 0.69. please refer to the CRRC vol 2 and the book on federal cartridge boxes. We would need to take the use of weapon case by case but i would also expect some federal regular, and other regiments to have started the war with the 55 and other regiments with a verity of different weapons as well as the 42 .
The target time for the VC does depend on scenario but it is also very common for us to base our impressions around 63. I would love to take part in a early war impression but i would need to obtain a verity of equipment to do this accurately . I would also say that it is very easy to make sweeping statements about equipment when trying to remain as generic as possible, this can sometimes lead to inaccuracies in the equipment used . We need to be very careful about this, this is not a easy thing to achieve but it can be done within reason. I believe in the Vc we should stick to 2 regiments on each side that we can properly research then we won't need to guess at what equipment was used . Martyn Goddard
Volunteer company Lazy Jacks mess Mess #4 It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. Abraham lincoln |
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johnfhopper |
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Rich, I would say that for what you are trying to achieve, the .69 cal box is a good safe bet. If you only had a chance of one box to cover a multi scenario, that would be it. If you read Civil War Cartridge Boxes of the Union Infantryman, by Paul D. Johnson from cover to cover, you do find that .69 boxes had several revivales, being issued later in 63 (I think) owing to shortages and issued to troops who were armed with .58 cal weapons.
One of the problems i trying to get it right, is that the more info that becomes available, the more you know you are getting it wrong. I used to have a CS box and one US Box. Having read that damn book I realised my US box was March 1864, and could not be used before that date. If still playing with muskets, I'd have a .69 . John H |
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fedhead |
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I don't believe it's a safe bet in 64 john, i would still argue that a box in the cal of the weapon used would be a safe bet wouldn't you ? i am not saying that 0.69 box would not be issued to someone with a 0.58 cal weapon but i still believe that it would not be in any numbers from mid war onwards.
Martyn Goddard
Volunteer company Lazy Jacks mess Mess #4 It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. Abraham lincoln |
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fedhead |
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I have copied this quote over from R waddle
As to the quote on appropriateness of the "1857 Round Ball" box. That statement is out of date, the examples in Johnson's book were pre-war examples, and the contracts the gov't issued for that specific pattern end in June 1861. The 'roundball' box of the 1857 pattern for .69 weapons did not continue past that date, NO future contracts exist. The .69 cal 1839 Box & the .69 cal US 1861 Pattern elongated box are most correct for usage... The 1857 Round ball in .69 is a unique variant and more likely than not didn't see action in the field. The 1857pattern for .58 boxes though, did indeed see service. What type of ammunition is the box for? as they are slightly different in size. I am deliberately not using any information supplied by any vendor producing examples of the boxes in discussion. Also i have referred to the federal cartridge box book in my second post. Plus i am not referring to use of the boxes in discussion by confederate forces. Martyn Goddard
Volunteer company Lazy Jacks mess Mess #4 It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. Abraham lincoln |
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Linkstrap |
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Quote: Phew..! That's pretty much the premise that I was working on when I bought a .69 cal 1839 box from Robert Serio, (of course, in my case, it's for Confed. cav use only). Jim. |
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johnfhopper |
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I think Rich is trying to get one box to do a lot of jobs. I think a .69 cal made to 61 standards, i.e. with belt loops and hanging straps is a good choice for most of the war, although as you say, no doubt less common after 64. The suprise really is that a box had a life span of about 3 months. Mainly as in combat the tins got binned, broken, etc. I think from that the reality is that they would have changed on a regular basis, something we can not do.
Round ball, elongated ball or buck and ball I think Martyn. If you had to choose just one box that covered CS both ANV and AoT, US East and West, the .69 ain't a bad choice, but I think I would also have in reserve a March 64 Fedral box for use in Eastern Federal armies from about July 64 onwards. |
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